Diane is the second profile in our new Careers for Globetrotters series. Diane Tisdall lives in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia, working for World Vision International. She talks to us about Mongolia’s misconceptions, bundling up for winter, and how to take advantage of Canada’s youth internship programs.
Read the interview below. You can also watch her series of videos here.
Can you tell us who you are, and what you do?
My name is Diane Tisdall. I'm a resource development manager at World Vision.
World Vision is one of the larger NGOs in the world, and in Mongolia, it's the largest NGO. Mongolia is doing great in a lot of ways—their literacy rate is huge, their nutritional rates are great—but there's still a lot of inequality. Here, we really want to start a program where Mongolians are helping Mongolians. So we're working with companies, we're working with local sponsors to create projects here, where it's all locally funded. I work with a really amazing team working on that.
How did you get to where you are? Tell us about your career trajectory.
I did my undergraduate degree in political science, and during that time I was able to go to Rwanda with a professor that was from the region. We spent two months working for our professor and a woman who wanted to start an NGO. We were doing firsthand fieldwork, so we were talking to people in Rwanda, understanding what it's like to live there. I realized when I was there that it was a really challenging field and I was very underqualified for it.
So, I did a few other internships. I did a really great one with the Canadian government, where I worked in Argentina, in a jungle, working with an indigenous village where they were starting a tourism company. I worked with people my age there, worked barefoot; it was really a great experience, but again I really felt that I was I needed to learn a lot more.
From there, I enrolled in a master's program in Ottawa at Carleton University, where it was more focused on international affairs writ large. And through that, through their amazing co-op program, I received a position at Global Affairs Canada, where I was working on a whole new set of development areas. I was negotiating on behalf of Canada for the G20 and for G7 on our development issues. I had a really great team, I learned a lot, I had really incredible bosses—but I still felt that it was very policy-oriented, it was very high level, and I was struggling with not seeing tangible results.
The position in Mongolia came around, and here I'm still working in an office, and I do still spend some time on Excel, but I'm able to see the positive changes that happen. I'm able to talk a lot about what development is, talking to big companies that have never heard of it and are interested in giving back to their communities.
You mentioned feeling out of your depth in those first couple of field experiences. Can you tell us about the challenges?
When I was in Rwanda [during my undergraduate degree], I was only there for two months. I was asking a lot of questions to understand the context and to understand what the challenges there were, in order to tell people back home, so they would be open to donating. But, I felt that in development, you really need to build relationships and you need to make trusting honest relationships with people; in two months, that's really not possible.
In Argentina, I was there for six months, but I had quite the language barrier. That was also a challenge. I spoke Spanish fluently, but I was working in an area where they spoke an indigenous language. So here we were, everybody speaking in their second language, so that was really complex. And I really felt that I should work in an area where I'm speaking the same language.
I ended up in Mongolia, where again, I don't speak the native language. I work with a team that has excellent English, a great group of women who have lived abroad, but every day they're teaching me new words in Mongolian—which it's quite a challenging language! But, I am here for at least a few years so I think here I can really build those relationships that I lacked in other countries I've lived.
What is a typical day or week like for you?
A typical day in Mongolia? Hmmm! Well, often our hours are flexible, so that's really nice. I can arrive anywhere between 8:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m., and I chat with my team. I work with a group of really great women, and so we'll chat about what the week looks like.
Last week, in particular, we were working with the UN on how we were going to respond to the harsh winter. There are areas of Mongolia right now that are experiencing really harsh temperatures, a lot of snowfall. Since more than half the population are still herders, they are really struggling with this harsh winter and they weren't able to prepare for it. Animals are at risk of dying because they're not able to access the grass because it's frozen. So, we've been working with the UN on how we're going to address this and how we can help. We've had some really interesting discussions on how do we provide for women who aren't able to get sanitation products, or how are we able to prevent this from happening in the future if Mongolia, because of climate change, continues to have really harsh winters.
I've also been having discussions with my colleagues and with the leading cell phone provider, MobiCom. They decided they really want to give back to Mongolia, they've been very successful here. And so they have partnered with World Vision to build rural bathrooms. Bathrooms in Mongolia are just two wooden planks, and children use these bathrooms in minus 50 degrees. In the urban areas, they're excellent bathrooms but in the rural areas, it's a really different context. So, with MobiCom—and we're bringing on UNICEF as well this year—we're building bathrooms all across the country.
Another piece of my day will include talking, and learning from all of my colleagues. I think I mentioned that I work for the largest NGO here in Mongolia, so every day. I learn about a new project that we've done or that we're working on. I'm always having interesting conversations with my teammates.
At night, I hang out with a stray cat that we picked up—that's a very ex-pat thing to do! So my partner and I play with our cat and eat food! And then, in our building we're really lucky, we have a bar and restaurant so we grab a drink with some friends.
So why Mongolia? And how did you find your position?
So in December of last year, my partner got an offer with the Canadian Embassy here. So, I jumped on LinkedIn, to see what there was to offer in Mongolia. Through a lot of searching around, I found this really great woman—a Canadian who was working there—and I reached out to her. There was this snowball effect: she knew somebody who was leaving World Vision. World Vision is an organization that I know a lot about; my dad has given to World Vision since the 1960s. I reached out to them before I was even on a plane. They were going through restructuring and funding decreases, so they were unsure if there was a spot for me.
But, I jumped on a plane to visit my boyfriend. And my poor boss in Ottawa kept a spot for me while I was gone—but then this position came about. I had to weigh my options, but it was a really great opportunity; I was managing a team—something that back in Ottawa might not have the opportunity to do for a while. The position involved launching a new team and a new strategy working with the private sector, so I thought I had to take it—and I'm really glad I did. I'm learning a lot and I work with really great people for a really important reason.
What are some challenges you’ve faced working and living in Mongolia, in a cross-cultural environment?
Working in Mongolia has been a really great experience, but I did come at a tricky time. Right now, the economy isn't doing as well as it has in the past. A few years ago, Mongolia had the fastest growing economy in the world—it was 17%—but now it's zero. So trying to launch a new strategy where we're working with the private sector, or we're trying to work with companies, is a little challenging.
I also started my job right after a change in government. That is really great and exciting and we're really looking forward to all of the new development plans and all of their actions for improving the country. But, it is tricky to have to build new relationships. So that's been a challenge to encounter.
Personally, I work with a really great team that speaks English fluently. So there aren't as many language boundaries. When I visit rural areas, though, that can change. I was in a province about eight hours from the main city, where there aren't really roads; I was really privileged to get to meet governors of provinces and mayors of cities, but the conversations there are all in Mongolian. You don't want to interrupt your colleagues, while conversation is free-flowing and you're getting a lot of ideas and you're building relationships, but at the same time you don't want to stay mute. So, I am learning to balance that when I go into rural areas.
Other challenges? It is minus 30 degrees here in the winter! (But I'm from Ottawa, so so that's okay!) As for food, I'm Ulaanbaatar—the capital city. It is a really cosmopolitan city, so you can find anything you want. I thought it was cool that Mongolia has its own version of an empanada! I have roots in South America, so for me that was kind of nice. But, really I've had a very lucky and easy pathway, probably because I've lived abroad before, so I'm kind of open to any challenges. Mongolians are very welcoming, very warm, extremely intelligent, so I've really had a good time.
You mentioned a lot of your time is spent in Ulaanbaatar, but can you tell us about some of your experiences in the field?
I've had two really interesting experiences going out into the field.
One was actually with the Canadian Embassy during the elections; we were able to monitor and observe polling stations. Mongolia is a very large country; it's three and a half times the size of California but with a population of three million. There's quite a large population in the city, and then there's not very much. There are quite a few really well-constructed roads, but then after a while they do become grass, roads, where you'll see a herd of horses, and then a flock of sheep and goats, and then there's yaks, which I'd never seen before. And just beautiful, rolling green hills. There are some patches of trees.
Then you'll see where people live—in what a lot of people refer to as a yurt here it's called a ger; it's kind of like a wider, smaller teepee. A whole family will live in there and it's actually quite nice. They'll have really big beds and it's very warm; somebody is always cooking and a kid is always playing in there. And if you want to buy their traditional milk, you just kind of drive up to one of their, their gers and you honk, and then they invite you in and they allow you to try some of their milk. That's a really interesting experience, because you're sitting on their bed they've welcomed you into their home. They'll probably offer you some homemade bread as well.
So, it was a really interesting, interesting journey just to get there, and then the actual work was very interesting. We were observing polling stations, so we would walk into community centers or schools and explain who we were, and that we were there just just to observe. A lot of countries around the world, all sorts of countries, have polling stations with observers. We were able to see sometimes older people, or people who live in rural areas who dress up in their traditional outfits; some people would come to the polling station on a horse, still. So it was a really, really special experience.
The other experience I had was when I started my job at World Vision, where we were assessing how harsh the winter is. This year, they're experiencing a very harsh winter that they called a zoo. And so, we were talking with herders, we were speaking with people who their livestock is their only source of livelihood. If their livestock is endangered, it's really going to affect their source of income and their entire lives. We were also speaking with governors and with mayors to talk about any reserves or preparation plans, to see if there are any areas that we can collaborate on, and where we can help. That was a beautiful adventure. I went with a few colleagues who translated and who shared with me all about their culture and about what life in rural areas is like. And it was a really great time.
Are there misconceptions about what you do?
There can be misconceptions about how what I do here, and what my work and my life are like. A lot of people will Google "Mongolia" and they will see cows in the distance and sheep and grass and yurts. But I live in quite a cosmopolitan city—in fact, in a high rise—and I go to work often in in a suit, not barefoot like I used to in Argentina.
I also don't get to go to the field as much as I would like. Sometimes I do spend days on Excel, or days doing a lot of emailing and report writing. But what my friends probably don't know is that I do get to negotiate. Right now we're negotiating with UNICEF on working together on a project in rural schools. That's really exciting, and something that I probably wouldn't have the opportunity to do back home.
Another misconception is that a lot of NGOs are filled with a lot of foreigners. One thing that I really like about World Vision is they hire almost all local employees. Our organization has over 500 staff, and there are only five foreigners there. They hire teachers and mothers in the areas, who want to give back and who really know the communities that they're working in. They know the people that they're trying to support, and I think that's really special.
Do you have advice for getting your foot in the door in this sector?
The Canadian government has an incredible internship program. It's called the International Youth Internship Program, or IYIP. Look into it: it has internships for people under 30. Participants only have to have a college degree or a university degree—no prior experience—and they will send you to a developing country for six months, and pay for your learning experience. I highly encourage these opportunities.
You don't have to have studied development or political science or sociology beforehand. They send people who are interested in the environment, they send people in computer science. They send mathematicians. Everybody has something to offer to development and I think that's what's so unique about the field that I work in is you need people of all skill levels, and all interests, to make it work. So, really look into that internship. There's a lot of NGOs that also offer volunteer opportunities.
Also, just really explaining that you're you're resilient. A lot of jobs you learn on the job. I was definitely underqualified for this position and I learned every day from my colleagues and my teammates. So when applying for a job, explaining that you're resilient and you're flexible and you're willing to learn really goes a long way.
You worked both with Global Affairs Canada and now World Vision Mongolia. Can you tell us more about those organizations and different areas of their work?
I had two very different experiences of working in development. The first one was working for Global Affairs Canada, which is our big ministry of foreign affairs, trade and development—it's all amalgamated into one. I did work on the development side when the amalgamation was very new, so I can talk a little bit about that.
It had a policy section that was working on what Canada's policies were, and what our stances were on development in international bodies, for example, the G7 or the G20. The other side of the work would be our operations and our programming—so, giving out grants to other NGOs, and how to monitor those, how to have a gender component, how to ensure that there's an environmental component to those, and having relationships with the NGOs that are on the ground, conducting the projects.
I don't work there anymore, so I'm sure it's always evolving and always changing, but those are kind of the two big areas.
At World Vision, a very large NGO, there are so many different areas that you can become involved in. We have different sectors of our programs. We work in education, for example, where we're not actually the teachers but we do after-school projects. So, we help children who have nowhere else to go learn how to dance, or learn how to sing or boost their confidence. We organize student clubs that, for example, run after-school programs for even younger kids, or they'll run school safety projects.
We also work in health, where we're trying to improve the sanitation of children in Mongolia—so children who may not have a place to wash their hands, or they may not even know how to wash their hands. So we're trying to build sinks, and teach them about the importance of sanitation. We also work with mothers, women who are pregnant, and are about to have their first child. We work with them on prenatal classes, on nutrition and how to care for your child, and what to expect.
And we also work on what's called disaster risk reduction. Mongolia is prone to earthquakes. We haven't had a big one yet, but the work is getting people ready for that what, how to prepare for it, what will it look like and how do you react to it. This area of work also covers even simple things like a fire;
how to "stop, drop and roll" like we learn in kindergarten. Or, how to prevent other accidents from happening.
We also have an area that works on child protection. So, in many countries, a lot of children are either neglected or they're abused. The issue is how to bring awareness to this issue; it's something that happens in a lot of countries, but we don't ever talk about it. So, talking to parents about healthy parenting, and how to have patience and how to discipline your children in better ways, and also talking to teachers about how to discipline their students, and what to do if you see child abuse. A really innovative project that World Vision did here was a Child Helpline. All over the country, for free, you can call on your cell phone 108, and it allows you to speak with a counselor about an issue that you're experiencing as a child, or something that you've seen happen in the community, and they'll put you in touch with the right resources. So that's really interesting and you might think in Mongolia people might not have cell phones, but it's incredible how many children here do have cell phones. And it's a free service. So that's, that's a really interesting project.
So, those are kind of our programming areas, But then, you can also work in finance, so we have accountants who check all of the books, and they make sure that we're spending properly and that we're doing everything in a transparent way. We have procurement officers, who go out and they find the best companies to work with, that have the best price and will give us the best value for money. And there is our team that is working on building relationships with the private sector and having Mongolians help Mongolians. We also have communication, so if you're interested in taking pictures and videos and in being a journalist, there are opportunities to capture the work here so it can go to the people all around the world who are helping these projects, who want to understand where their funding is going.
So, there are so many different areas, And we don't do a lot of infrastructure projects but you can also be an engineer or a midwife or a doctor, and work in development, so it's quite a multifaceted field.
Talk to us about formal education. You completed a Masters, did it help you? Are there other certifications you hope to pursue?
I did a really unique Master's program that it was very applied, it was almost college-like. So, my classes were very hands-on and practical. An example of a class I took was "Impact evaluation", which involved learning how to conduct a development project, and then learning how to evaluate it so it can be scaled up. So, for example, doing a new curriculum in rural schools, and doing it only in a few areas; then, afterwards, seeing if it works, seeing if, if you had good results, and where; and finally, assessing if you can make it a nationwide or a province-wide program.
I also had classes where we'd be writing mock letters or mock memos to a minister saying there's a conflict in a country happening right now and these are my recommendations, and this is how I think you should take direction. So, there were very applied types of assignments as opposed to theoretical or very academic assignments.
It also had a Co-op program. So quite a few friends and I all received placements at the ministries that we wanted; I have friends who are really happy working at Canadian Border Services or at Public Safety, or who are working at Environment Canada. That was really great, and opened a lot of doors.
I also think working and living in Ottawa, was really helpful for my career. Ottawa has a lot of NGOs, and a lot of like-minded people as well—people who are really interested in talking about international affairs and foreign policy, and so that really stimulates your interests and expands your knowledge.
In terms of other certificates, I'm interested in doing my project management certificate. I think I'm a little shy of hours that I've completed in project management, but that's something that I'm looking to pursue. And languages. I did a summer exchange program in Cuba during my undergraduate degree, and that was a wonderful experience to learn Spanish and to improve my Spanish. I'm now struggling with French, and I realized that that will hinder me when I return back to Ottawa; a lot of jobs in Ottawa, and international NGO jobs do require French. So, I'd suggest looking into the amazing programs that the Canadian government does, like the Explore Program, where you can live in Quebec for five weeks paid by the government to improve your French.
What abilities and qualities does someone need to succeed in this line of work?
Definitely being resilient, and open to learning about new cultures. Checking your own biases, ensuring that you're not ethnocentric, and you're very aware of your privilege and of your background.
You have to be able to laugh a lot. There have been a lot of times that I was picked on for how I pronounce things, or how little I still understand about the country even though I've been here for six months.
You have to be, as I said, willing to learn a lot about yourself, willing to make friendships, and to make working relationships, quickly. Expats leave, often, so you have to be open to accepting every invitation that comes around, but also being open to saying goodbye. I've been to a handful of going away parties in the six short months that I've been here.
And ideally, I'm gonna say, having a great internet connection overseas so you can still chat with the friends back home!
You mentioned cold calling and reaching out to people on LinkedIn. Do you have tips when it comes to networking?
I've emailed a lot of people on LinkedIn, and I keep it short and sweet: a sentence or two about what they do, and that I'm looking to ask them a few questions. I probably won't bombard them with all of my questions at first, just see if they're interested.
Keep in mind, they're probably flattered. They probably don't receive as many messages as you think that they do. And they're probably open to helping someone; at one point in their lives, somebody helped them get to where they are now. If they don't respond back, that's okay too.
So, I message a ton of people and I put a ton of messages out there, and then I usually get a few really solid ones back. Feel free to copy and paste a few of your messages. In the first line, absolutely talk about who they are and why they intrigue you, but then the other questions can be the same—so it doesn't take as much time as you might think.
In terms of in-person, networking, go to lots of events! Most events have a free drink or a free cookie. They don't take too much time and you'll probably meet somebody interesting or learn something new. In Ottawa, where I spent a lot of my time, there were events in my field almost weekly. So, there's a lot of opportunities after work, and I think they can lead to a lot of good things.
What would you say to someone who was about to embark on an international experience?
You're about to jump on a plane to a country you've never been to... Have fun! Go with an open mind and write stuff out, take pictures and document some of the great times, because it's going to move fast. It's going to move quick, and there are going to be times where it's tough.
I once got bedbugs in Argentina and I was ready to go home. But then, I look back at what I wrote and it's comical—and I know that it was only an awful couple hours of my life. Also, be open to accepting every invitation. You meet somebody on the bus and they ask you to grab a drink—go for it. You never know where that will lead, or who they will become in your life. So be open and ready for the adventure!
